A Special Program on October 10, 2001

“Is God a God of War? Is God a God of the State”

Christian:

This is THE WORD – THE COSMIC WAVE. Dear listeners, we greet you warmly to our roundtable discussions about current world events. Today the topic of our conversation is: "Is God a God of War? Is God a God of the State?"

The assassins of New York and Washington carried out their terrible deeds in the name of God. We know this from the spiritual instructions found in the luggage of one of the “warriors for God,” as they call themselves. Among other things, it said there: “When you are in the airplane, you should pray to God, for you are doing this for God.”

When the American president made his announcement at the beginning of the military strikes on Afghanistan, he closed his speech with the sentences: “The battle is now in progress on many fronts. Peace and freedom will prevail. May God continue to bless America.” – end of quote.
A bit later, Osama bin Laden appeared on the television screen to threaten all of America with disaster. America is full of fear and thank God for this, he said: “I swear by God, neither America nor the people who live there will even dream of living in security again.” At the end, he turned to his brothers in faith in the lands of Mohammed: “God is great; may pride be with Islam; may peace and the grace of God be with you.” – end of quote.
And so, at the global High Noon, as one could say, of war and terrorism, each of the heroes calls on God’s help, in order to destroy the other as a world enemy.

Dear listeners, what kind of a God is this, of whom one promises oneself such help?
We should deal with all these questions in our roundtable discussion today. Perhaps we shall first deal with the question of which God the American president was calling on at the beginning of this war. He is the God of the Protestants, Catholics and Jews, the 3 main religions of the United States. In many passages of the Bible in the Old Testament, this God is described as extremely hostile, angry with neighboring peoples and bloodthirsty toward enemies. And so, in the fifth book of Moses, Deuteronomy, according to what the priesthood attributed to him, he supposedly said: “and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand you shall put all its males to the sword …” (Dt. 20:13)
The God of the Old Testament is a God of war in many passages. And also the God of the Christians, the church Christians, who carry on with and add to the Old Testament with the New, was called upon by the state authorities early on, even though Jesus of Nazareth had also taught: “My kingdom is not of this world.” (Jn. 18:36)

Gabriele:
And which God did bin Laden call upon when he made this oath; for example: “I swear by God.”

Christian:
He called on the God of Mohammed, the God of Islam. Islam is written down in the Koran. The God of Mohammed did not teach a pacifist religion. The prophet Mohammed waged wars of conquest.

Gabriele:
When I now hear what you say, then, in the last analysis, there are three gods: There is the warlike God who, on the one hand, should help America; there is the warlike God who should help the Moslems, that is, bin Laden; and then there is the God of Jesus, the Christ. And so, we have three gods! And now the question: Whom should one believe in?

Gert:
When you think about it this way, then you see that a certain kind of agreement prevails between the Americans and the Moslems. They both have a warlike God who has nothing in common with the Christian God. And so, one can ask himself: Do I believe in a God like bin Laden’s or like George Bush’s, or do I believe in Jesus Christ?

Gabriele:
Yes, but the God of Mohammed said something very different – that is, for bin Laden. America’s God should be for America, and the God in Jesus, the Christ, should be, in turn, for the Christians. Now I’m completely mixed up. Whom should one now choose? Which God should one choose? To which God should one pray?

Gert:
I think one must do as it was done thousands of years ago in all priest religions: There was always a certain idol that was honored, which should help one to conquer his enemies and to rule his region. And each country had its own idol, called it God, worshiped it and prayed to it for help against its enemies.

Gabriele:
Well, I think that we are coming into a time that will prove which of the three gods is significant, that is, which is the right God. And today I am convinced that Jesus, the Christ, taught the right God, the true God, the eternal God, for now it is being proven that no peace can be made through terrorism. Terror, that is, terrorism, always results in terror. Jesus said in His teachings, in the Sermon on the Mount: “You have heard that it was said: You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” With this, He indicated the hostile, warlike God, the God of the caste of priests of the Old Testament: “But I say to you,” so said Jesus, the Christ – “… love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you.”

Christian:
With this, He broke the cycle of violence that the God of war had always led (the people) into, the God of war of the Old Testament, the God of war of the churches, which justified the Crusades with this. Jesus of Nazareth broke through the cycle of violence with His Sermon on the Mount. And this also holds true for the violence that originates from the side of a God as interpreted by Islam.

Gabriele:
It is proven more and more that Jesus, the Christ, the greatest prophet for Christendom and the Redeemer of all mankind, taught the true God, for Jesus also taught us the law: “What a person sows, he will reap.” We say that every action is followed by a reaction. But that is nothing other than cause and effect – or as it says in the Bible – sowing and reaping.

Gert:
When one looks at it from a scientific point of view, Jesus of Nazareth was actually far before His time. Today every enlightened person has to say that this is the only real teaching, for we accept without question in science that every action is followed by a reaction, and we all accept without question the words “no energy is lost.” And so, this means that when energy, negative energy, for example, terror, hatred, is set loose somewhere in the world, then this energy continues to exist until it is dissolved. And dissolved means, as we know: One asks for forgiveness; one makes amends and attempts to reconcile with his neighbor. Actually everyone in natural science accepts this today. And so, today, in our time, actually all enlightened and intelligent people must reject every religion that denies these interelationships.

Gabriele:
I want to come back again to the fact that the teachings of Jesus, the Christ, are proven as the right teaching, for He said: “You have heard that it was said: ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” He did not say that God spoke through Moses: “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” He said: “You have heard that it was said.”

Christian:
Basically He dissociated Himself from what the caste of priests and those who wrote for the court attributed to God through the texts that they put into Moses’ mouth. And what impresses me a lot is that the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth, who points to the law of sowing and reaping and to the necessity for peaceableness, is also a very practical help. For we have seen that the reaction – violence against violence – always leads again to war. If in today’s conflict one had taken the teachings of the Nazarene into account, then the world situation would be much less dangerous today than it has become in the last two or three weeks. The opposite of this – namely, to set violence against violence again – has led to the fact that fear is growing worldwide and likewise the danger from more terrorist strikes. And so, one sees that Jesus of Nazareth also taught an ethics of practical reason.

Gabriele:
If we call ourselves Christian, then we have to refer to the teachings of Jesus, the Christ, and should ultimately fulfill what the greatest teacher and our Redeemer taught us. He said, for instance, since you speak of violence: “And if you desire something which causes another pain and sorrow, tear it out of your heart. Only in this way will you attain peace. For it is better to endure sorrow than to inflict it on those who are weaker than you.”

Gert:
And so, this means, when one relates it to the present time: Be lenient with the weak, and do not try to destroy others with your own might.
Christian:
If one had followed this commandment, then the present world conflict would not have developed, and the gap between rich and poor on this Earth would have been bridged long ago. Then the ones who are now trying to carry out a rebellion with violence would not feel weak and oppressed, but the good of all would be the central point of a world politics that would do justice to this ethics of Jesus of Nazareth.

Gabriele:
The Christianity that gives out and practices these hostile mottoes of violence may not call itself Christian. It would be at most Catholic and Protestant, for they want that the books of the castes of priests of that time, which are attributed by them to Moses, be fulfilled, and this means: fighting, terrorism, killing, murder, torture – that is, violence.

Christian:
Of course they expressly deny this by saying: “But we are not for murder and torture and for violence. We are merely going against the violence that was done to us.”

Gabriele:
“Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,” said Jesus.

Christian:
And at the same time, these same people who protest against being accused of violence say that the five books of Moses, which you spoke of before, should still be recognized as the word of God. And so, I cannot say: “I affirm the five books of Moses, but I am for peace,” for these five books of Moses are warlike books.

Gabriele:
And Jesus required of us that one should not retaliate like with like. Where does Christianity stand?

Gert:
Christianity stands in the tradition of the denominations. The tradition, as Christian already said, results from the un-Christian instructions that were written into the Bible by the caste of priests. And one could say that what is in the Bible is long-suffering, because in reality we do something else. But one underestimates the danger that results from this, that is, that the instructions are passed down from generation to generation as binding.
What happens, for example, when a young person reads the Bible? He sees the books of Moses and sees the instructions for violence. Will he then not say: “This is a binding religious belief; I will orient my actions to it.” And if I cannot presently carry them out because of governmental limitations and laws, then I will try it where I find the freedom to do it. Isn’t the root for terrorism already planted here? And what is the difference between such a fanatical belief and what one attributes to the various Moslem groups, namely, violence against all that seems foreign to me, or what does not correspond to my concepts.

Gabriele:
In my opinion, God is a God of love, just as Jesus taught us about our God and Father. Consequently, there is no hostile God and thus, the God of love, the God of truth, the God, whom Jesus, the Christ, taught us about, will help neither bin Laden nor all others who call themselves Christian and take action against their brothers and sisters with hostile mottoes.

Now I have a question: If the Christian world had done what bin Laden demanded – well, what did he demand of the Christians?

Christian:
That is a good question, what did he actually demand? Perhaps it is really not as much as we think. There are only three things: The withdrawal of the Americans from Saudi Arabia, because for him this land is a Holy Land. The cities of Mecca and Medina are there. Secondly, he demands the right of the Palestinians to their own state, that is, the resolution of the Palestine-Israel-conflict. And thirdly, he demands the end of the embargo against Iraq, because he says that hundreds of thousands of children have starved to death as a result of this embargo.

Gabriele:
Would this not be a possibility for negotiation on a Christian basis?

Gert:
It would in any case be much cheaper and much more reasonable for the West and America to look into this and to negotiate about it and to put their billions to use for this, instead of again, as already in the Gulf War, giving out hundreds of billions of dollars. I am convinced that with this money, put to use with the consent of the present opponent, every conflict could be easily solved.

Gabriele:
Then perhaps we would come back to the Bible, where Isaiah essentially said: “The weapons shall become plowshares.” And so we, as Christians, could in time make the weapons into plowshares.

Gert:
If only this had been tried this out. Today one always thinks that if I don’t defend myself against an attack, then I will go under. Who has ever tried to reach out to the enemy as Jesus, the Christ, recommended? Who has ever tried out the power of the good and also to put the inherent law “you will reap what you sow” to the test in a positive sense? What is there against the idea that the one, against whom I do not retaliate evil with evil, but do good to him, will not also suddenly come to his senses?

Gabriele:
The Christians could have actually taken this chance, for it is a paradox: On the one hand one now calls for donations for Afghanistan, on the other hand the money is bombed away and the country is razed to the ground. What kind of belief system is this?


Christian:
But prerequisite for the fulfillment of your recommendation is that those who call themselves Christian do what Jesus of Nazareth taught as the first step: Namely, to recognize oneself, to ask for the spiritual root of the situation. To ask why does the other one actually hate me? What is my part of this controversy? That is, to rid oneself of the old program: “when I am attacked, then the other one is always to blame.” Perhaps he has reason. This should not mean that the terrible strikes against New York and Washington can be justified by something or other. But the outrage over these strikes should not keep us from seeing the question: How could it ever have come to this hatred and this aggression?

Gabriele:
Because you said that one always blames the others, Jesus said: “Do not judge, so that you will not be judged. For you will be judged in the same way you judge others. And with whatever measure you measure, you will be measured again in return. And as you do to others, so will it be done to you.”

Bin Laden as well as many Christians, who sit in seats of power, carry on like prophets who give instructions – often with God on their lips. And here Jesus said: “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but are inwardly ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits, Can one gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but a bad tree brings forth bad fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is only fit to be cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore, you should distinguish the good from the bad by their fruits.”
And so, where is the gift of discernment, when Christians act according to the books of Moses, which ultimately are not from the prophet Moses, but written by the caste of priests of that time and attributed to Moses? For God is a loving God, and Moses was a righteous prophet. He did not teach such things.

Gert:
What you just read refers of course, not only to the rulers, but also to the people. If one should beware of false prophets, the one must also be capable of differentiating. And this gift of discernment –we know this from the teachings of Jesus, the Christ – I can attain only when I myself still have an intact conscience, when I check myself in everything that I do, and I myself am not a partner in this aggressive, hostile attitude, which then leads to the fact that statesmen make pompous promises, and that they send their citizens, whom they should take care of, to war with the danger that they will then return in a zinc casket. They themselves are on dry land, secure, and do not shy away from saddling their people with these loads. But a part of this must also be that those who are ruled by the rulers and who voted them into office have attained the gift of discernment.

Gabriele:
We have here again a help that could lead to prove which of the three gods is the true God. The God of war of the Catholic and Protestant Churches, the God of war of Islam or the God of love, of whom Jesus taught, for Jesus said: “Not all who say to Me: Lord! Lord! will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those who do the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name? Have we not cast out devils in Your name?" – Let us think of bin Laden who called the Americans diabolical. - "Have we not cast out devils in your name? Have we not done many wonderful works in Your name? Then I will declare to them: I have never known you; depart from Me, you evil-doers.”
And Jesus continued: “Therefore, I compare the one who hears these words of Mine and follows them with a wise man who built his house solidly upon a rock. And the rain fell and the floods came and the winds blew about this house. And it did not fall in, for it was founded upon a rock. And the one who hears these words of Mine and does not follow them should be compared with a foolish man who built his house upon sand. And the rain fell and the floods came and the winds blew and beat against that house and it fell in, and great was its collapse. But a city which is built solidly, walled solidly in a circle or on the top of a hill and founded upon a rock can never fall nor be hidden.”

And it is written: "And it happened that when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at His teaching. For He addressed the head and the heart when He taught and did not speak like the scribes who taught only by the authority of their office."

Gert:
This speech of Jesus and the teachings of the Christ are a message of trust, of security. When one sees all these aggressions, these hostile of our time, then they are nothing more than the outflow of fear, of fear and of weakness. The aggression comes from the fact that every one is afraid of every one else, and thinks he has to out-trump him. No one trusts himself to reach out his hand to the other one, because he thinks he will give away too much.
Christ and Jesus in His Sermon on the Mount gives us here a promise. He said the one who follows His teaching, who is peaceful, who reaches out his hand to his neighbor, who does not encounter his enemy with hostility – will stand at His right hand. And I think that it is only from this comforting teaching that strength can grow, also from going toward one’s neighbor who is not friendly toward one.

Christian:
And so, the important thing is that one tries it out. The message that we have just heard is seen by the world of today, including the teachings of the church Christians, as being unlivable, as utopia. But mankind – as you already said before – never tried this. This critical situation, which the world has gotten into by not following the teachings of the Nazarene, would be a great chance to finally try out His teachings and put them into practice in everyday life, and not to again answer violence with violence. For we see that a violent answer has in no way increased security, on the contrary, the dangers have grown greater.

Gabriele:
If we are in the time of the apocalypse, then the causes of all people – no matter of what faith or religion – are already effective, so that it is possible that all of mankind stands under its effects. For, in the last analysis, Christianity has mocked and scorned Jesus for 2000 years. One took parts of His teachings, mixed them with dogmas, rites and rituals and taught only a few crumbs of this great teaching of peace. The result is that perhaps the apocalypse brings the effects to all of mankind.

Christian:
This means that it is too late, so to speak, because the aura of this Earth is so filled with negative energies, with the aggressions of thousands of years of the history of mankind, which always tossed the teachings of the Nazarene to the wind.

Gabriele:
When we read the apocalypse of John and place the cryptic words on our heart, then we can read some things out of it and possibly fathom where mankind stands.
I am for the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. I am for the commandments of God, which He gave through Moses. The commandments of God are clear, and He always says in the commandments: “You shall.”

Christian:
But what can I do in this terrible situation that mankind and each one of us is apparently in? You have pointed out to us that it may already be too late for many things, because mankind rejected the teachings of the Nazarene for too long. What can one say to the people who are living today? Should they be in despair? Or is there hope?

Gabriele:
I find that we are always quick to condemn others and to point our finger at others. How would it be if each one of us would concentrate on himself, for what good does it do when we say, “the others are to blame”? Every single one of us is partly responsible for this great act of judgement, which ultimately we want to carry out ourselves: Terrorism against terrorism – results, in turn, in terrorism. Violence against violence – results again in violence.
What if we were to ask ourselves in which points we ourselves are violent? Through what have we contributed to the fact that, seen globally, such things can happen over and over again, for 2000 years? I find that each one should reflect on himself, by making himself aware of the fact that he does not have to go into a church made of stone in order to worship God. That he finally realizes that every person is the temple of God, and that the spirit of love, the spirit of help, the spirit of forgiveness, dwells in each one of us.
If we believe in this, then in many ways we will become aware that God, the Spirit of love, is in us. Then we will also turn within, I repeat: For every person is the temple of God and God dwells in him. God is the omnipresent, all-wise God in everything. God is in animals, plants and minerals. God is the Creator of the Mother Earth. If we become aware of this, then we will no longer consume the carcasses of our little brothers and sisters, the animals. We will meet nature with love and peaceableness and will also become aware that each stone contains God’s love. This will gradually result in humility toward a great, mighty Spirit of love, and a certain gentleness toward all forms of life, which in turn, results in love for neighbor, the neighborly love toward our fellow man, the love for our little animal brothers and sisters, the love for nature, the love for Mother Earth. This means that each individual can do this for himself. Then he begins to live, and then he senses what life means, for life is love and life is peace.

Christian:
What you now have said is actually the great vision that can be read in Isaiah, and which is spoken of in the Revelation of John, namely, of the transformation of the Earth, of a new Earth and a new heaven, and both come to be through the inner transformation of the people who prepare for the spiritual return of the Christ of God, who find shall a new Earth waiting: a vision that goes beyond the apocalyptic situation, a vision that conveys optimism to us.

Gabriele:
The new person must be born, the person in Jesus, the Christ. We may not say that “others will do it for us” or, “the new person is not yet born.” We are called upon every day anew to become a new person, and we have received the help from God, our Father, through Moses: It is the commandments of God. We have received the help of Jesus, the Christ; it is His teachings and above all, the central teaching of Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount. From God, our Father, and from our Redeemer, we have received help over help for becoming a new person in His Spirit.

Dear brothers, dear sisters, today is a new day! Begin to become a new person. You will begin to live; You will see more clearly. You will see more deeply. You will attain inner peace and you will also not consume the carcasses of your fellow creatures, the animals. You will respect nature and suddenly feel in your hearts: God is omnipresent – and very consciously in each one of you!

Christian:
And in each situation, even in this dangerous world situation that we find ourselves in today.

Dear listeners, I think that the lasts words that we just heard are filled with great comfort. We must not fall into apathy and anxiety, but each one can begin with himself, in order to turn this world toward the better.

Gabriele:
And what did Jesus say? “Strive first for the Kingdom of God … and all these things will be given to you as well.” That is comfort; that is help. And the awareness that deep within us, deep in our soul, a being dwells, which lives eternally, and which belongs to the Kingdom of God.
Let us strive first for the Kingdom of God, by fulfilling the commandments of love, as we also experience in the Sermon on the Mount, and we will become peaceful. It could be that this world – as it is now – can no longer be saved, but the one who devotes himself to Christ has the Savior at his side, Jesus, the Christ, the Redeemer of all souls and men.
 

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